Practical Courtship - Latest Comments

Re: 5 Reasons Why Single Women Should Leave The Nest

Guest — Sat, 27 Aug 2011 23:44:43 -0000

I "bumped into" this article while searching for another post and have to say it's an issue I've thought a lot about and struggled with an answer. This is now August of 2011, almost two years after this article was written, so perhaps nobody keeps up with it now. But for the sake of others who might run across it ...

I'm 29 and living at home. I have a small home business and maintain individual friendships as well as fellowshipping alongside my family with other family units. I'll freely admit living as an adult in my parent's household can be challenging. But I'm sure that living as an adult with another adult (my husband) will also be challenging. I love what Julie says (her post is below): "Living independently does NOT make a better wife -- it requires a woman
to then give up that independence when she marries. Submission is
something that most women have to work at; much more so when they are
coming from a place where the final decision has been theirs."

I just want to say to Julie and to Shaun -- if either of them ever read this -- a huge, huge thank-you!! As a woman living against today's culture, it's so easy to lose heart: to wonder if you're the only one on the planet who thinks a woman's place is in her father's home until she marries. On those days when it's just not easy, the temptation is to look around and say, "Okay, I'm done with this. Nobody else does it this way. " I am very encouraged to see your posts and know that I'm not alone in how I believe.   Julie, thank you for being a woman who will encourage other women to be true to the vision God has placed in our hearts through His word. Shaun, thank you for the reminder that there are still men out there who are different than the mainstream, who are looking for women who cherish their family and support their dad in preparation for supporting and coming alongside their husbands.

To other girls who are also at home who might find this post, I just want to say, Keep looking to the Lord to fulfill your heart. He promises never to desert the one who waits for Him (Psalm 37:3-7, Isaiah 64:4). I have found the Lord to be utterly faithful. Though He has not (yet) granted the desire for marriage, yet as I have sought Him, He has shown me His heart, and nothing else can compare.   A God-ordained marriage will be wonderful, I'm sure, but from personal experience I will assure you, "Taste and see that the Lord is GOOD!"

Re: The Importance of Being Balanced

Hearohisrael — Sat, 09 Jul 2011 11:15:13 -0000

Numbers 30 talks of the authority and responsibility of her father .I see little involvement done of even talked about .God has put the father in a specific role , not to control the relationship but to help guide as God works with each individual involved individually to show his will. His job is to establish the perimeters the two are to stay in not the kids! Where are the Dads !!

Re: Courtship Definitions

Davidumstattd — Tue, 05 Jul 2011 14:59:23 -0000

Just because something is in the bible doesn't mean that it is what God is mandating. I mean Polygamy is in the bible but God doesn't want us to do that.

Re: Does Courtship Work?

dogging — Mon, 02 May 2011 08:51:24 -0000

Ever wonder about all the free stuff you see on the web? ... why I couldn't be more proud to represent LTCA: an agency with roots dating back to 1974

Re: Courtship & Predestination

Floresx2005 — Sat, 30 Apr 2011 04:03:11 -0000

Come on, That song " Jesus loves the little children" using that as a theological argument is weak. That song is not even holy spirit inspired. Do it with scripture in the correct context. Let's back to scripture.
Romans 9:13 As it is written, “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.”
Romans 9:16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy.
Will this be your response to God?
Romans 9:19 You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?”
Romans 9:20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?”
God is the one who ordains all things. He is the sovereign LORD and King of Kings. He does not make his decision based on sinful man desires or choices.
God is the one who grants repentance.

Acts 11:17 "If God therefore gave to them the same gift as He gave to us also after believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could stand in God's way?" And when they heard this, they quieted down, and glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has GRANTED to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life."

2 Tim. 2:24-26 And the Lord's bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged, with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God MAY GRANT them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will.

Those who God has Ordain Believe.
Acts 13:48
Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.

The results of being appointed to Eternal life was belief. It's not because they believed that they were appointed to eternal life. But the other way around.
Only God saves. He does not need mans cooperation.
Romans 8:30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
If you read this chain its all Gods work and God does not fail.
Ezekiel 36:26-27
I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.
I love how you said and I quote you " Why in the world would you wish to believe in that God determines our eternal destination in spite our will and desire?" Here is your answer Romans 9 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), it was said to her, “The older shall serve the younger.” As it is written, “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.” What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not!
For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.”
So then it is NOT OF HIM WHO WILLS, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy.
Joshua 24:15 Does not give evidence of men being able to choose saving Faith. If you know anything about ethnic Israel they said one thing but really desired to serve false gods that's like all humanity. Scripture just shows us what humanity given the opportunity to choose, what decision we would make, and it would be choose to serve false gods. That's why God has always reserved for himself a remanent.
Jeremiah 50:20 In those days and in that time,” says the Lord,
“The iniquity of Israel shall be sought, but there shall be none;
And the sins of Judah, but they shall not be found;
For I will pardon those whom I preserve.
1 King 19:18 Yet I have reserved seven thousand in Israel, all whose knees have not bowed to Baal, and every mouth that has not kissed him.”
Romans 11:4-6 But what does the divine response say to him? “I have reserved for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.”
Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the ELECTION of grace.
And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.

PS: And not Israel is Israel. Every believer is Israel.

Re: Courtship & Predestination

Floresx2005 — Sat, 30 Apr 2011 03:19:04 -0000

God determines our destination by his Will not ours. Where do we get this? From scripture. John 1:13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the WILL of the flesh, nor of the WILL of man, but of God.
John 6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”

Regeneration proceeds Faith
John 3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
Regeneration is by Gods Will not mans desire.
John 3:8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
Man would never choose God given an opportunity. Scripture is clear on that.
Romans 8:9-10 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
Romans 3:10 As it is written: “There is none righteous, no, not one; There is none who understands; There is none who seeks after God.
Given the choice as you put it NO ONE WOULD BE SAVED.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
Grace and Faith are a gift of God towards his Elect. And without faith you cannot please God. Scripture is clear.

Re: Courtship & Predestination

Floresx2005 — Sat, 30 Apr 2011 00:35:06 -0000

John 3:16 Only proves that God send his son " For Everyone believing" not all men believe. Read all John 3 not just verse 16. “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned "ALREADY" because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of
God.
2 Peter3:9 Peter is writing to believers about believers not all humanity. To understand this verse in your way you must be an open theist and believe God does not know all. If God already knows that a man will be born and never accept God and perish. God still hopes that this same man will surprise God and accept him. I don't believe that's the Creator of all. Context is very important. Jesus said he gives his life for the sheep. Not the sheep and goats. John 10:26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. Jesus does not say if you choose to believe you can be my sheep. God does love all humanity but not equally. Prime example Jesus revealed himself to saint Paul but not to Pilot or Pharoah. If you read all Romans 9 you get how God really works. He owes no man anything. Romans 9:11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls),
1 John 2:1-2 is about the believers and those in the world that will come to believe. Jews and Gentiles. Unless you embrace universalism that he is the propitiation for all men and all will be saved and none will perish. You contradict scripture.

Re: Courtship & Predestination

Floresx2005 — Sat, 30 Apr 2011 00:17:58 -0000

Foreknowledge in the biblical sense doesn't mean God goes to the future to see what will a person does. If that was the case God really doesn't know all and he learns from man. Foreknowledge means he chose to enter into relationship. I'm not an open theist. I believe God knows all because he ordains all and because scripture describes God in such way. We cannot ignore predestination when scripture is clear that God predestines.

Re: Courtship & Predestination

No_email — Thu, 17 Mar 2011 15:40:14 -0000

It never ceases to amaze me how many Christians take the hyperspiritual approach to mate selection. It is not practical to assume that God has one predetermined individual for you. It is very dangerous as well.
Heres why:
1) It is amazing how many go from the "God told me they are the one" concept to the "I must have missed it" concept just a few months or years after they walk down the aisle. Ask married couples and most all will say they married the one. Ask the divorced and they will say that they thought they were when they got married. It is a biased question either way. Personal choice incorporates personal responsibility after we make those choices. If you go with "the one" concept you will conclude that you "missed God" if and when things get tough, thereby assuming that "the one" must still be out there. The next step is divorce.
If you do embrace "the one" concept then you need to also embrace that the leading of the Lord should come through a discovery process, that is only complete through much TIME. Until there are neutral emotions in the relationship, you have not even started down that road. Truly, two people that are "in love" could not hear God through a loudspeaker. The "Leading of the Lord" is not safe when emotions are elevated. EVER!
2) It is also dangerous in that once a couple plays the "God said" card, they will not be genuinely open to anything that does not validate the relationship. In Pre-Marital counseling once they go down that road it will be almost impossible to get them to explore any potential warning signs of incompatibility.
3) It is the biggest decision of ones life! We must be VERY careful how we advise people in these areas (especially young people). You are not responsible for their choice. They are. The longer they can keep a question mark over the relationship the more knowledge they will receive about the potential partner.

Very much needs to be taught in the Church today on this subject.
Go buy the book "The One" by Ben Young. It covers this subject in detail.

Re: Courtship & Predestination

s2666 — Tue, 22 Feb 2011 19:34:26 -0000

Meet other Christian singles looking for friendship and love and finding it! Connect with others at your own speed and in a variety of ways. Christian dating websites are devoted to helping Christians, from diverse demographic backgrounds and geographical locations, find friendship and romance.

Re: 5 Reasons Why Single Women Should Leave The Nest

Von — Mon, 31 Jan 2011 08:22:14 -0000

You seem to be saying that you would rather your mother have obeyed her own inclinations (self) rather than what God wants her to do. Wasn't it Jesus who said, "If you love me, obey my commands"? It is the mark of a Christian, indeed it was a mark of Christ, that we subordinate our will to the will of God.

Re: 5 Reasons Why Single Women Should Leave The Nest

Kae — Sun, 30 Jan 2011 23:28:41 -0000

You sound slightly jealous and bitter in your statement, that wasn't what Melanie was saying at all. She was just stating that one can still submit and be under the authority of their parents while living apart from them. My mother was a home maker and I thank her everyday for it, but she didn't do it because it's in the word, she did it because she's a caring and wonderful person. There is a difference, I would rather a woman stay at home because she wants to than to stay home because it's law .... because you aren't really making a case for yourself but rather making me not want anything to do with a "sad" soul like yourself.

Re: Courtship Challenge #2: Interaction

Kristine — Sun, 30 Jan 2011 23:20:11 -0000

As a home schooled girl, I never experienced any of these problems. My brother and I were home schooled until high school - then we went off to Christian school. We eventually graduated from Public School because the private schools were rigorous enough. As a home schooled kid, I had friends from the co-ops, and from church (which had 8,000 members). My parents are conservative and relatively traditional, and when I would tell people I was home schooled most were shocked because we didn’t meet the general stereotype. My parents expected us to be involved in sports, with church, and have friends from all walks of life. They sheltered us from some things, but not everything because they knew we’d encounter things as we grew. Both my brother and I went to college. I just received my masters, and am going to be a teacher. I’ve noticed the sad trend many home schooled students families seem to have … that they all live in the same town for the rest of their life, only associate with certain kinds of people, and where the girls either get married early or don’t go to college – and it’s sad. Home school students are some of the brightest kids out there – and it’s a waste and a shame not to do something with it. My mom always believed that you should reach for your dreams, I’m not liberal in any sense, but seeing home schooled girls never experiencing life is sad and disheartening.

Re: The Importance of Being Balanced

Lindeman Clan11 — Fri, 03 Dec 2010 18:04:47 -0000

A pastor reminded us that we're to treat each other like sisters and older women. He gave an example " Do you hold your neighbour's wife when you walk with her?" Then don't do anything you wouldn't do with your neighbour's huband or wife.

Re: Courtship Definitions

Erin Coates — Mon, 29 Nov 2010 10:00:06 -0000

Good definitions. I vote for arranged marriage. It is after all the way God intended...I know I will by fighting the modern day current by saying that but read your Bible if you don't believe me. :)

Re: 7 Reasons Men Wait to Get Married

Erin Coates — Mon, 29 Nov 2010 09:50:49 -0000

Thomas,
This is an excellent article. I am posting this on Facebook. Reasons 1 and 3 are especially good. Thank you for writing.

Re: Courtship & Predestination

Erin Coates — Mon, 29 Nov 2010 09:45:50 -0000

So how much interaction is healthy? Hmmm...you mentioned that Esther and Ruth won the hearts of their men. Frankly, I don't see that in scripture. Ruth won her man's respect and Esther won the best looking and most sexy contest (no crassness intended). I think that we really have a backwards mindset on this. We live in a culture that makes marriage about 2 people when it is really a lot larger than that. As Christians, we should be influencing the culture, not the other way around. The biblical model was for arranged marriage and that meant that the parents have a LOT of say. There is nothing wrong with interaction together as young people but I think that parental involvement before the interaction gets too serious is healthy. Looking is not a problem, striking up a friendship is not a problem but initiating courtship or marriage outside of authourity is a problem.

How much is unhealthy? Well, I believe that prolonged interaction with the opposite gender is not bad in and of itself depending on the circumstances. I am grateful for the elderly men in my life and appreciate spending time listening to them. However, spending too much time with young men can lead to emotional attachment and so I limit my time in one-on-one conversation with them.

Waiting around doesn’t seem to be working, but should effectiveness be the criteria? Waiting all depends on how you wait. We are told to be content in every situation of our life but I fully understand the hardship of being single (I am still single at the time of this comment). I think that the effectiveness of our walk with God needs to be the first priority. Are we trusting in Him? Are we being obedient? Are we active in serving Him? I can't count how many times young women/men have met their spouse while serving God on a missions team or serving in church together. There is nothing wrong with wondering if so and so might be a future spouse but you better be sure that your first motive is friendship and you talk to your parents/spiritual authourity figure about it first. :)

Re: 5 Reasons Why Single Women Should Leave The Nest

Erin Coates — Mon, 29 Nov 2010 09:31:37 -0000

Should we encourage adult single women to move out of their homes? To be frank, no. I have seen more young women get shipwrecked and messed up once they leave the house. I think our standard has to be the Bible and no-where does it say about a woman leaving her father an mother before marriage. It says this about the guy but not the woman. I don't have a problem with a young woman, who has events and social functions outside of her home but I believe that a woman can become well rounded and able to challenge her future husband's mind without getting a college education or working in the world. Personally, I work outside my home. This has been because of necessity but not something I encourage young women to do. It has been more of a struggle for me and although I have grown in maturity because of it, I don't believe that is the only way to grow.

Should they stay home under the covering of their parents? Yes, this is scriptural. However, I think that many parents have not raised their daughters to have an opinion, to be able to hold their own and to be mature in their thinking patterns. How sad if we think this is only attainable by pushing them out of the nest. Parents should encourage their children to make godly friends outside of their siblings, to practice hospitality and to learn from older mentors. They should be involved with church activities, community events and getting to know what "the real world" is like without a daily indoctrination to it. This is after all, the reason many homeschool.

As a single woman who has a very firm mind of her own...this was passed down to me by my parents. Although submission to authourity is crucial, my parents have taught me to challenge erroneous beliefs and to stand up for what is right. In other words to challenge issues not authourity.

Re: Courtship Challenge #1: Identification

Vaughn Ohlman — Mon, 29 Nov 2010 09:30:39 -0000

Interested in your answer here. I have written a couple of books on this subject and am looking for reviewers, if you are interested (or anybody else, for that matter)
Reply to Von@vonsbooks.com or on facebook, as you wish.

Re: Courtship Challenge #1: Identification

Erin Coates — Mon, 29 Nov 2010 09:19:59 -0000

Hmmm...I believe that if families showed more hospitality to each other, this problem could be solved very easily. If the parents of a girl, saw a young man in the congregation or homeschool assembly who seemed like he had a good head on his shoulders, then why not invite he and his family for dinner? Have them over and really get to know eachother. This is a safety net because most likely the young man will be himself, hard to fake it when your whole family is listening and might say something if you lie. Why do we always encourage meeting members of the opposite sex outside of a family environment? I think a return to the Biblical model is the best way but we have become so Noth Americanized into believing that romance leads to marriage instead of godly influence. My question is, should you marry because you love someone or should you love someone because you have married them? In other words, is romantic love a pre-requisite for marriage according to the Word of God? :) Food for thought...

Re: Courtship Challenge #2: Interaction

Erin Coates — Mon, 29 Nov 2010 09:10:51 -0000

Thomas, Thanks for posting this, I appreciate hearing your insight. I am a homeschool graduate and here is my two cents worth.
Do you agree(with this article)? I agree with much of what you are saying but you also say that arranged marriage is cultural and that's why it is not practiced today in North America. I would like to suggest that arranged marriage is God's idea, not man's and therefore transcends cultures. My family and I believe in arranged marriage and although my parent's will respect my preferences, the final choice who I marry will be up to them. Think about it, for some in Christian families where the parents are homeschooling them and spending large amounts of time and money into raising the children, they aren't going to pass them off on the first geek with flowers and a wedding ring. If they love their children, they will want the best for them. Sometimes the best is not something that the young adults are capable of discerning on their won. Don't get me wrong, I am a strong-willed individual who is very capable of making her own decisions but capability is not the real issue, God's design and plan is. I think we will see a revisit to arranged marriage amongst homeschoolers in the future. After all, Jewish, East Indian and some Chinese communities still successfully practice this today.

Is there a barrier to interaction in courtship? Well, if you mean is there a barrier to meeting and getting to know other godly young people, yes. I don't think that is because we lack social events to meet but because most young people shy away from talking about spiritual issues for fear of "scaring away" potential mates. If we don't speak up for what we believe in, can we be upset if there appears to be a lack of godly young people. You expect some guy to know you're godly if you never talk about Jesus or spiritual things? Honestly, I think one of the best events that we can have to bring godly young people together for friendship, encouragement and perhaps leading to courtship is Bible conferences that allow for small group discussion. If godliness is the number one priority, then create an avenue for talking about it!

What has caused it? I think some homeschoolers stay within their circle of fellow homeschoolers and never really meet other homeschool families from other states or provinces. After you finish high school homeschool, then your interaction with other homeschoolers is even more limited. Why can't we have an online site for homeschoolers to list their profiles of what their beliefs are, their long term goals, etc. Then the parents could screen the site along with their children for potential mates and start an email relationship. I know that long-distance relationships are not everyone's ideal but they do work.

How can we help conservative singles interact casually? Is the problem that they are not interacting or that they are not interacting about the right things. I still believe that the arranged marriage system is best, courtship is next and dating is out of the question. Why can't we have family nights where whole families that are looking for potential mates for their children can come and interact. That would take a lot of the pressure off the children and place them in a semi-familiar environment. Call it transitioning.

How does your community handle this challenge. To be frank, most of my friends date. There is no-one in my church that I am remotely interested in as they are looking for dating only. The number of Christians that want to do it God's way is VERY slim. We have lots of opportunities for dating but no-one wants to ask my dad's permission to see me. For some reason, there is a very high lack of accountability among young people today.

Re: 7 Reasons Men Wait to Get Married

Vaughn Ohlman — Mon, 22 Nov 2010 17:24:15 -0000

Amen.

Re: Does Courtship Work?

Vaughn Ohlman — Mon, 22 Nov 2010 16:56:47 -0000

I appreciated your middle paragraph Daniel, the one about sexuality,... but I think God's Word has a slightly different answer than 'good dating' :)

Re: Does Courtship Work?

Vaughn Ohlman — Mon, 22 Nov 2010 16:55:07 -0000

I certainly do!

Don't want to cross post too badly, but what you are talking about is one of the big reasons we have been working on our books on the subject.

I guess Thomas can delete this if he wants, but our answer is a return to Biblical marriage patterns. See: http://christianbetrothal.blog...

Re: Courtship Definitions

Vaughn Ohlman — Mon, 22 Nov 2010 16:39:39 -0000

I would add betrothal.
Value: Only covenantal relationships
Criterion: The father's word
Rationale: It is what is taught and practiced in God's Word.